The Drummond Geometry Forum

About 10 years ago I took an extensive P&L training course in Chicago with Bob Stephens.

I ‘ve traded very infrequently during the following years as my other business venture did not allow me the time or focus to trade with any consistency.

How is your course different. I know Charles Drummond was aware of the material presented in Mr. Stephens course,as Bob mentioned to us.

Is the difference strictly the multimedia presentation or are there other major differences in the methodology, Mr. Stephens’s course was very thorough.

Any information would be appreciated as I ‘m looking to commence trading again using P&L as my method of analysis.

J.O.

Thanks for your interest. Always great to hear from CMI'ers. That was my first introduction to Charlie and so I do recall it distinctly.

Some good portion of the basic sections of the material is the same, naturally, since it comes from a comon source. But much is different. The difference between the courses is substantial.

The first major difference is that Charlie and I co-wrote the course... it was not the case that I wrote the course based on a review of his writings. Both Charlie and I felt that a serious and major re-conceptualization was necessary, and so we proceeded to work closely together for over four years of daily back-and-forth e-mails and hand-in-hand work to construct this set of Lessons. It was quite an experiecne for both of us.

The second major difference is that it includes all of Charlie's experience and wisdom from his many years of trading success, and this contains many elements which were not present in the CMI courses, including the envelope theory, and the many specific trade plans that were personal to Charlie and not included in the CMI materials.

The third major difference is that the course includes frequent updates by Charlie and myself on the Internet, which include many current research projects. These are primarily in moving-cursor movies made directly by Charlie.

The fourth major difference is that the course includes with it all of Charlie's original writings, including the advanced manual and the labs, which formed the basis of Charlie's teachings to his 100 private students in the 1980s. The "labs" book was the basis for the CMI course, along with some information from the advanced manusl (but not the Trade plans) . And there are also seven additional books included, which weren't part of the CMI materials.

The fifth major difference is that the software associated with the course contains the use of the nearby and furtherout support and resistance zones, which Charlie created for his private use, and which we believe are superior to the A,B,C,D zones developed and in use as part of the CMI course.

And finally, the use of multi-media as you suspected, is an enhancement which we believe is valuable and useful . That, coupled with the quality writing and presentation of concepts in an orderly manner, make the course different.

Thanks for the prompt and informative reply.
When I did trade ,my MAJOR problem was discipline. I really believe and hopefully learned that my mentality is such that I would be much better off
If I took entries and exits based on a more “mechanical” approach. Any time I used my own discretion, it usually meant a trade that was based more on emotion and hope, then following a set plan. How mechanical versus discretionary is your course and trading plans based upon?
I really need to work with a program that would take most of the discretionary and emotional aspects out of the trade. I guess I’m asking for the holy grail, aren’t I ? However , I guess you heard this all before. I have to get myself “out of the way of the trade”, so to speak. Are your students generally successful? I’ve never heard from Bob Stephens again, and I wonder if 10 years later he is” trading for a living?” Mr. Mandel as well, who spoke about P&L at a Tag seminar some years back. It’s one thing to earn money trading versus, making it selling trading courses.

J.O.

In the course, the last 15 Lessons contain a lengthy series of trade plans, each of which have objective entries and exits, and substantial track records associated with each. But we have not created releasable software that makes these entrance and exits into fully mechanical actions which do not require some judgment on the part of the trader. SO.... objective, mechanical, but not fully mechanized.

We do recognize that the psychology and discipline aspects of trading are central and we have extensive materials on this element in the course and in Charlie's books the accompany the course.

I know many of our students are quite successful but I don't maintain statistics on their accomplishments nor do I ask that they report to me in any formal sort of way, and so neither Charlie nor I have anything but anecdotal reports.

I have not heard form Bobby Stephens for some time. The last I heard he was working with a group at the Merc and trading, doing the analysis part of the trades while other members of the team did the executions. But I don't know if this still is his situation. Jimmy Mandel did trade for a few years, but then moved into furniture sales and other business ventures.